Some theses

Tom: Thesis: the term god was first applied to actual phenomena
8:53 PM Thesis: consciousness arrived first as an epiphany

8:54 PM Thesis: the epiphany was the movement from analogical to metaphorical thought
Thesis: the first humans to have consciousness were women
8:55 PM Thesis: the first group act of consciousness was to metaphorically associate the moon with menses
8:59 PM Thesis: all present culture derives from the common culture of sundaland
9:01 PM thesis: traces of the common culture can best be understood through number theory, geometry, music, and theology
you there?
me: yup
9:02 PM waiting for the entire string of pearls ;)
Tom: thesis: the original culture of homo sapiens sapiens was matriarchal
9:03 PM thesis: the oldest purely human institution is the week
9:04 PM thesis: the yin/yang symbol derives from rhythm of the month
me: this is quite a lot to prove :-D
9:05 PM hmm the "week" as a generic term?
because there have been different lengths for the week
Tom: thesis: the week derives from the first seven days of the lunar month when women were in seclusion because of mense
I mean the 7 day week
originally it began with the new moon when women would start menstruating
9:06 PM and end at the waxing half moon
when men would set off to hunt
9:07 PM we see this rhythm still in the holy week/bright week rhythm of christianity
9:08 PM thesis: many myths can be understood by considering the night sky of 12000 years ago
9:09 PM thesis: the night sky was divided into two sections--the lands of the living and the dead/ divided by the bull and the eagle
9:11 PM thesis: the intertwining snakes around the pole of the cadeucus sp? is from this same time--the snakes are the milky way bands, the pole is the north point
me: caduceus
9:12 PM Tom : transposition
9:15 PM thesis: the most ancient religious custom after animal sacrifice is circumcision
thesis: circumcision's original purpose was to make a man have the power in the blood of a woman
9:16 PM thesis: the deepest layer of blood symbolism is menstrual blood
9:17 PM thesis: the original raising to consciousness was accomplished by initiation
9:18 PM thesis: the ancients had an advanced human culture adapted to their easy to live in ice age environment
thesis: this culture lacked all the hallmarks of civlization
9:19 PM no classes, no slavery, no monumental building
I was surprised to discover that class structure and slavery are essential components in the archaeological definition of civilization
9:20 PM so why are we always looking for ancient civilizations?
most of the evidence for life during the ice age has been lost by the 130 m sea rise of the last 24000 years
me: hmm
Tom: humans are best adapted to a tropical seashore culture
9:23 PM they moved along the seashores and would only move inland when the carrying capacity of the littoral was exceeded
The littoral during the ice age was an incredible wonderland--the exposed continental shelf was rich in potassium
9:24 PM the original flood of mythological fame was probably a flood of the Mekong river
me: hmm
why there?
9:25 PM Tom: http://personalpages.tds.net/~theseeker/Sunda.htm
9:26 PM this author connects sundaland to atlantic, mu and lemuria!!!
but the maps are correct
9:27 PM http://www.mevietnam.org/NguonGoc/nvt-nguongocdantoc.html
this map is better
9:29 PM sundaland remains the most important spot in the world for biological diversity
can you imagine what it was like with that huge exposed plain of potassium rich soil?
me: :-9
delicious
9:30 PM Tom: If you look at an iceage map of climate zones, you can see that sundaland had the largest mass of human friendly environment of any place on earth

even the amazon wasn't as rich then
and no humans had got there anyway
9:31 PM they were eaten durian by the bucketful!
me: mmm
Tom: and the fish!
9:32 PM you could laze around and pick from fruit right by your camp
since you had spit out all the seeds nearby
hehe
9:33 PM the last nub of sundaland is the mekong delta
now it's all cultivated, but imagine it wild, wow!
9:34 PM of course, the carrying capacity of land, even there, was much smaller than after the introduction of farming
in Cambodia there's an ancient kind of rice that just floats on the lake
me: hehe
9:35 PM Tom: huntergatherers ate grains and legume but did not plant them
why bother?
they had plenty of time to gaze at the night sky and contemplate things
9:36 PM the original use of mathematics was navigation
these people were much handier with a dugout than we give them credit
they were better at everything than we give them credit
9:37 PM they simply had not invented writing--they had poetic songs to remember common knowledge
me: :)
Tom: their synthetic languages were more complex than ours
as anyone knows who has tried to learn ancient languages--and these were already quite corrupted
9:38 PM me : yes
Tom : chinese is the furthest extreme in the opposite direction
the first language was sign
me: most people forget how brilliant ancient humans were
Tom: the first ritual was dance
9:39 PM even today on the Eve of the Sabbath, the candles are lit only by women, who cover their eyes to remember emerging from the tent
9:40 PM cover their eyes while lighting so they see the first light of the sabbath
the sabbath is the day that women and men came back together
the ice age had a lot of very dangerous predators around
9:41 PM so the women had to consciously synchronize their periods and make them men stay outside to guard them
originally homo women were much smaller than men
9:42 PM in primates the relationship of size of women to men is dependent on their mating practices
9:43 PM me : hmm
Tom : originally it appears men did have sex with many women, but when human-directed culture began it was to control the balance of male/female relations
9:44 PM
females needed food and care--sex was self-consciously parsed out
me: so what doesthe size diff indicate?
btw I did my first juice spill on my computer but it lived
but some of my keys aren't quite perfect :)
Tom: geez
9:46 PM the more females males have access to the smaller the females
the general rule
9:49 PM from wikipedia: Species with the highest sexual dimorphism, such as the pheasant, tend to be those species in which the care and raising of offspring is done only by the mother, with no involvement of the father (low degree of paternal investment). This would also explain the low degree of sexual dimorphism in humans, who have a high degree of paternal investment compared to most other mammals. Older texts sometimes claim that humans have a high degree of sexual dimorphism, but closer study has shown that this is not the case (Brin, 2004).
me: parasitic males :-9
9:50 PM Tom : the neolithic revolution was born in Jericho--a land of incredible richness at the time
9:55 PM Tom: Canaan was a "land flowing with milk and honey"
9:57 PM my guess is that by the time of first dispersal out of sundaland humans had already developed a three step initiation system
corresponding to the polar axis, the ecliptic axis, and the galactic center
9:58 PM the original "heaven" was accessed by the Milky Way
one tests these ideas by looking at the americas
10:00 PM for instance, the Maya have only one constellation they call by the same name (in the zodiac at least) scorpio
scorpio is the constellation of the galactic center
Tom: when the males took over following the massive climatological and ecological disruptions at the end of the 4000 years of great weather, civilization and literalism developed
10:04 PM http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Holocene_Climatic_Optimum
10:05 PM http://www.usgcrp.gov/usgcrp/seminars/980217DD.html
10:06 PM
Tom: my concern is climactic tipping points
10:08 PM that cause rapid (with decades) and dramatic climate shifts
our modeling seem to assume uniformitarianism, but now we know that's not how it works
10:10 PM the precession cycle appears to bring about sudden climactic shifts when the galactic center rises at one of the solstices and lesser shifts at the equinoxes
just 5 years to go!
10:11 PM the end of the ice age happened last time GC rose on a solstice
me: 2012 :-D
10:12 PM Tom: the end of the climactic optimum happened when the GC rose at the equinox
stated another way these events occur when perihelion is reached on a cardinal point
perihelion is opposite GC
10:13 PM GC pulls earth's orbit out of round
10:16 PM North Africa was a great place to live during the climactic optimum, as were the great lakes created by melting glaciers--after the forest moved in
10:17 PM there appears to be a single world culture that moved through these melting lakes and in the mediterranean--the soultrean culture of the famous cave paintings--these people even made it to america to create the clovis culture
10:18 PM this is shown by mitochondrial dna haplogroup
x
10:19 PM Tom: round temples equals moon god creator
rectangular temples equals sun god creator
10:20 PM moon god creator is original--the moon is the source of consciousness--of the soul
10:21 PM temple builders had very specialized mathematical knowledge based on harmonics, pi, and phi
10:22 PM the oldest temple builders were in Anatolia
10:23 PM physicians also relied on similar knowledge
in Greece, for instance, physicians came from "Asia" ie Anatolia
10:24 PM this is where wheat, barley, sheep, and goats were domesticated
the chinese domesticated the pig
there's a lot
Tom: of stuff I know about these things
10:26 PM Tom : gods became abstract personalities separate from natural phenomena with the neolithic revolution
10:27 PM
originally the highest gods were the unsetting stars, but then it was discovered they originally set, so the highest god became a theoretical point--the intersection of the galactic equator with the earth's equator
this point NEVER changes
the gravitational pull of the GC determines that
10:28 PM the GC is a black hole but it is now known every galaxy has a black hole and that these black holes actually gave birth to the stars
after the galaxy is formed they become stable
10:29 PM reminds me of Shiva
which is GC IMHO--Shakti is GC opposite in Taurus
10:30 PM shiva worship represents the most direct line back to sundaland ideas
as does tantra (the broad initiatory practice--not the more limited sexual practice
10:32 PM the temple builders of Anatolia are behind Sumerian, Egyptian, and Judaic thought
me: yes
10:33 PM Tom : these are the two main sources for religious ideas in eurasia
10:34 PM the egyptians show how literalism went crazy with the ridiculously elaborate burial procedures--at incredible human cost
but it's all quite beautiful at least
most hunter gatherer populations in the world today are regressed agriculturalists
10:35 PM descended from agriculturalists
me: that popped out for me
egyptians going crazy with literalism

just as stories being based on stars popped out for me
Tom: popped out?
me: popped out as a really good story :-D
10:38 PM Tom : the post climatic optimum has been punctuated by a series of sudden climactic shifts as well as more localized disasters such as floods, famine, and pestilence
Tom: it all makes interlocking sense but it's a radically different picture than what we were taught
10:41 PM me: yes
10:42 PM Tom: I've been working on a thesis about the difference between the "gods" tied to natural phenomena and GOD a purely abstract but highly complex idea that rejects the "gods"
me: yes?
10:43 PM Tom : to know GOD is the third step of initiation--GOD is what you come to know when you go through the third step
10:45 PM in other words, whatever term you use to describe the experience of the third step, GOD or nirvana, for instance, are all referents to the same experience
10:46 PM theological and philosophical ideas are only valid if they lead to this experience--otherwise its sophistry
I learned that in Theological School
me: :-D
10:47 PM Tom: this is the Way (the original name of Christianity), the Tao
when the initiatory aspect is removed, you get religion as we know it
10:48 PM christianity in the beginning, for instance, denied it was a threskeia
religion
10:49 PM religion were the stupid things the pagans did
10:50 PM christianity succeeded converting the entire silk road because it stopped the madness and every culture had predicted it
10:51 PM they all expected the arrival of a new figure to usher in the new age of pisces